lee enfield no4 mk1 identification

Over the years I have received many emails regarding serial numbers. 10,203. deeply-struck "s" 4Mk. 4Mk. The socket was forged by Viners Ltd. Most likely Jordanian from the Arab Legion, but could also have been used by Iraq. This is one of the most frequently (attempted) reproduced / forged marks of all the No4T marks. It is found on early rifles that saw full service (1941 Maltby - un-peened pad screws evident), It is on unissued "scopeless" rifles from 1944 and on later "scopeless" and service experienced 1945 rifles. British No4 rifles were set up with a 5 digit serial number system with 1XXXX being allotted to Maltby, 2XXXX Fazakerley, 3XXXX BSA Shirley. I will have to check through Skennerton tonight. "F.F. Buy Lee Enfield spike bayonet with scabbard No3 Mk1 No4 Mk2: GunBroker is the largest seller of Bayonets Knives & Swords All: 972734854 . There are almost 2 years of rifle production that did not receive this triangular sling swivel at the factory and would have it added in service - especially prolonged Cold War British service - it is still possible to encounter a rifle that was an early discharge / loss that never received the triangular swivel update. mark) on a scopeless 1944 BSA. by The_Enigma 30 Mar 2012, 09:13, Return to The United Kingdom & its Empire and Commonwealth 1919-45, Discussions on all aspects of the The United Kingdom & its Empire and Commonwealth during the Inter-War era and Second World War. 4Mk. I, Scabbard (Throat): broad arrow proofmark, Tool: "BRADES" over "1944" over broad arrow proofmark. Known Issues: PA 3rd Person broken (Wont fix) Tape clipping. A small number of aluminum mouthpieces are known, along with a single brass mouthpiece example (discussed below). I markings were reminiscent of how Pattern 1907 bayonets were marked, with the royal cypher, type, and maker. I now own one and some of your information is a little off. The company was established on the bombed out site of the South East London Indoor Sports Club (destroyed in the blitz bombings of 194041), solely to make bayonets. 4 Mk. II was, by far, the most numerous variant, with over 3.3million units produced. Fazakerley also continued to produce the rifle for foreign contracts after the war. P.S.S. These codes may be found on various wartime small arms manufactured in Nazi-occupied Europe during WW2. On the right the M47C, date and TR are as they should be - all else is modified, retouched or swapped out 7B/1005/21/103/1147 What makes this particular Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk.2 an 'obscure' object of desire: it's in abso-fricking-lutely 100% condition. Springfield Model 1795 Type IV Musket with State of New York Markings, US$1,600. 4 Mk. 1 scabbards. How to Use Classifieds - PLEASE READ FIRST ! ,DTvb5@ kg:v%A$6%#,6J,q]+9 V ,,mD$\"L3-p0$z2 cC+`i`,pIt jns;Nt=_e9AA r ^G? over S376, inside a rectangle. Along with this will be the model designation, and below this, the serial number. You are using an out of date browser. . The leather is quite thin, suggesting that this might have been done for civilian (e.g., police) use, rather than military use. All Enfield Rifles below are proofed and shoot ready. " gh" over "1 9 h". . II was a simplified version, eliminating the milling cuts required to create the cruciform blade flutes. The rifle Savage produced was the Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk.1*, a British military design that was adopted by the U.K. just a few years before World War II began. by Steve Hoog 23 Mar 2012, 02:44, Post Two Swiss codes are noted. The 2ndNZEF fought in the North African and European Theatres as part of the British 8th Army. It was published in 2007, available now from Aust., N.Z., US and UK distributors. This is stamped on the band: 1943 A L 1 1385 Also on the rear barrel band it is stamped VNS with a little crown underneath of it and there is an I stamped on the front sight guard. Although touted as having many advantages over the Pattern 1907, the No. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Description: Bayonet The No. <]>> The other makers were much less prolific. II* bayonets have been observed with an arrow over "D" marking on the front of the socket. broad arrow proofmark 1943" over "CAT. The Lee-Enfield series of rifles is one of the most successful bolt-action rifles of all time. II bayonets packaged in a cardboard carton. Adopted by the British Army in 1939 the No.4 came into full production during the height of World War 2. Stock No: 7B/546 I is the most commonly encountered scabbard, outnumbering all others combined. 4 Mk I Long Branch aperture sights In 1926, the British Army changed its nomenclature; the SMLE became known as the Rifle No. Longbranch No. Our Price: 195.00: Gunner Points: 19: Stock Info: Out Of Stock: CR322 LE4 Sling swivel. Quantity: 2 ea. My thought is its a Savage No4 Mk1* lend lease made in 1942, It has the ( S ) markings and machine marks, The receiver, barrel, bolt, magazine and stock all have the same Indian furbished serial numbers and the savage markings. More importantly, everything it makes has the performance to match. II bayonet re-packaged in 1963 cardboard carton. 4 Mk. He does mention the stylised 'M' is rare compared to the other factory markings encountered. These later T's often went into stock as "Scopeless" - a rifle in a transit chest as a spare part - awaiting a need and the addition of a scope and bracket - plus all the other CES. Bryan Browns Old Military Markings Web site. It has been observed that only on No4T rifles, there can be found an "X" mark on the upper left flat on top of the left fore end that holds the receiver wall. Recent research by Graham Priest determined that "TRM.1", "TRM.2", and "TRM 3" identify the Tinsley Rolling Mills Co. Ltd. of Sheffield. II*, with approximately 161,026 reported produced, during 19421943. Canadian Arsenals marked their bayonets with an "A" nested inside a "C". 4 bayonet is coated with PX4mineral oil (grease), in a green waxed "primary pack" wrapper. I've looked all over the internet and I can't find any info. 1 Enfield rifle was adopted by the United Kingdom in 1941. Apr 25, 2010 #2 Threeband The M1 Does My Talking 4Mk. 1 in 1939. Since the Government arms factories were already running at capacity producing rifles and machine guns, private contracts were let for bayonet production. The bayonet and socket were one solid forging. Other Nations Service and Replacement - Differing Nations have taken equipment from Great Britain and her colonies over the decades for frontline, secondary and domestic / internal service - Such as Italy and Holland immediately after WW2 - Israel and South Africa in the 1950s and 1960s India and Pakistan have kept their Lee Enfield's up and in reserve until a few years ago. 4 Rifle," appeared originally in the April 2004 issue of American Rifleman. 4 was 44 12" long, weighed 8 lbs., 11 ozs., and had been adopted in 1939 to replace the Short, Magazine Lee-Enfield (SMLE)renamed the No. Other Components - By studying the few untouched (scopeless) No4Ts we can see which other No4T components came from other supplies to the BSA factory from 1941 to 1945. The Lee-Enfield No. 4 Mk. by gruff27 23 Mar 2012, 11:37, Post The last year observed on these sights using the SM mark is 1943 as per the right hand example, then the S69 code is used - again on major components (sight ladder (top left of the face), cursor (left side), elevation screw (top) and elevations screw nut (back). The remnants of the wartime marking are lined through and the new marking applied above. 4Mk. 4 Mk I, chambered in the same .303 British cartridge as the SMLE, retained the better features of the SMLE (in 1926, the SMLE was renamed the No. 3. long by 0.8125in. The last picture shows an unusual Prince-Smith mark comprised of a large "56" on the socket face. 4 scabbards, the Securing Tab remained in British Army stores until the mid-1970s. The Lee Enfield by Ian Skennerton (2007) - ISBN: 9780949749826 . 150.00. AA5081". II* bayonets were produced, over a million of which were produced by Prince-Smith. The most common of these were: XP was used for the Shortened and Lightened Australian Lithgow (No6 Jungle Carbine) rifles, A was used for No1 MkVI trail rifles, BS was used on the British No7 small bore rifles, and T1 for the No5 small bore rifles. An increasing consensus is that this simply may be a British viewer's mark, as this mark seems only to be found on Prince-Smith examples. 0000001961 00000 n With the exception of Russia, socket bayonets had long gone out of fashion in modern armies. The new value of an ENFIELD 303 NO 4 MK I rifle has fallen ($24.62) dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $603.36 . %PDF-1.4 % Not too mention it looks better with the walnut furniture over the birch. Post These prefixes can be used to authenticate these rifles if found in a gun shop or personal collection. Rifle Serial Numbers were put on the box that all the parts of a subject rifle were taken from and stored in while it was being converted. Moncton, N.B. 1 various markings. SMLE rifle manufacturers were given no serial ranges to begin or end production with, so it is possible that two rifles may exist with the same serial number produced at different factories. Very good 5 groove barrel. Nice rifle regardless That was my original though, I know I wont get a 100g% sure answer I'm just looking for most likely. II bayonets from 19421944. Based on serial numbers observed, approximately 35,000 No. This rifle retained most of the overall design feature of the earlier model, including the 30 barrel length. Marked US Property , Gun is in exceptional condition. The No. During the Second World War, the British government curtailed the use of commercial trademarks to make it more difficult for the Germans to locate (and bomb) factories producing war materiel. . So it figures that the right S51 is almost always from Hollands and there are less of them due to service attrition than there are real No4Ts that can evidence them. 0000001426 00000 n 769 0 obj<> endobj According to Skennerton, these scabbards were most likely made in North America, either the USA or Canada. Accuracy: * * * * * No4 rifles were given a starting number that may be used to identify manufacturers, but again there was no set serial blocks. Due to similarities with Indian Government acceptance marks, this was once thought to possibly indicate Indian service. Specs: Savage Enfield No.4 MK1* Barrel Length: 25" Overall Length: 44.5" Caliber: .303 British Weight: 9lbs Capacity: 10 rounds Price: $600 to $1200 Ratings (out of five stars): Reliability: * * * * * It wasn't made by the French. & S. Ltd." = Fred Fisher & Sons Ltd. "JW (S) Ltd." = John Wilson Ltd., Sheffield, "TRM.1", "TRM.2", and "TRM 3" = Tinsley Rolling Mills Co. Ltd. of Sheffield. A round frog stud is brazed to the body. The number actually produced is believed to be 250,000. Wartime guns all had letter prefixes, but each. 4 Mk. The No. In practice and service, the size, position and shape of the cheekpiece was altered to suite the needs of the snipe that the rifle was designated for - these are an interesting study within themselves. Based on a 1944 Maltby rifle. Approved in November 1939, along with the Lee-Enfield No. Here is a Savage T format sight - with a 'squared S" on all 4 major parts as above: Of other interest - Wood and other Metal marks / stamps. Four mouthpiece materials have been documented: Zinc Alloy (Mazak), Steel, Aluminum, and brass. BRITISH or CANADIAN WWII ENFIELD SLING or BREN used cond. During refurbishment the bulk of German markings were scrubbed (although some waffenampts are still present and evidence of markings being removed is clear), further the original . The No. Unfired and as clean and bright as the day it was born in the Fazakerley Royal Ordnance Factory in Liverpool in 1954. II bayonets during 1941 and 1942. Our Price: . 4 bayonets went to New Zealand. 4Mk. It is essentially an updated N0. The size, position and style of font are particular to the Hollands application. BI-1005-99-961-7794 According to Graham Priest, on a rough scale of observations, he indicated that you see 100P.S.& S.Ltd for every circle mark; 150P.S.K for every circle mark, and 500N56 or unmarked for every circle mark. The very first Maltbys and BSA's produced their own and used the associated early marks for each (large B for BSA, stylized M for Maltby). on Oct 26, 2019. . The stocks of British manufactured examples are typically a naturally seasoned English walnut that has a moderately dark brown color and has a tight, straight grain. by Steve Hoog 22 Mar 2012, 20:21, Post 5 carbines have ONLY four digit serial numbers. One influence in the selection of Singer was that Scotland was felt to be safer from German bombers than England. II* over BEC N96, inside an oval (pictured at left). Our Price: 295.00: Gunner Points: 29: Stock Info: 1 In Stock: Parker Hale 8/53 Lee Enfield No4 rear sight (PH1) . This indicates the length of the bolt head with the larger numbers being the longer bolt heads. BO 12151 (the five digit no. 4 Spike Bayonet Manufacturers Chart. It has been observed that only on No4T rifles, there can be found an "X" mark on the upper left flat on top of the left fore end that holds the receiver wall. "S" for rear sight replaced (at Hollands)- "needs re-sighting", Serial Numbers - other than the receiver wrist and bolt. The used value of an ENFIELD 303 NO 4 MK I rifle has fallen ($5.68) dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $600.00 . The stock was made by . Is, until the government created the dispersal codes in 1943. The U.S.M5 scabbard was made by Beckwith Manufacturing Co. of Dover, New Hampshire. BSA experienced a third level of maker coding change - each of its factories were given an "A,B,C" location definition. According to Skennerton, 25,000 experimental MkII scabbards were manufactured by the Franco-British Electrical Company, Tempel Park, Hurley. All of the numbers on the metal (except the magazine) are matching. These included the Ross MK. 2. Here is a Hoyt marked MT&B Co made USA 1907 leather sling produced in 1918 which are thought to have made up the contingent of these WW1 supply / shipments. S191 was Franco-British Electrical's dispersal code. Canadian Arsenals, Ltd. was the post-war successor to Long Branch. Socket (right): Then after the lessons and material losses of the BEF in Europe, the No4T was hurried into existence and the 1907 USA leather slings were applied to it as standard equipment. 4 Mk 1 was made only in America and Canada and featured an additional simplification omitting two parts and some machining operations that allowed the bolt to be removed from the receiver by aligning the bolt head perfectly with a gap in its guide slot along the side of the receiver. 4 spike bayonets used by Turkey. II* bayonets, Baird secured the spike to the socket using a steel pin. "S" 0000004719 00000 n Here are 2 genuine early, It has been observed that only on No4T rifles, there can be found an, In the expert write ups, there is reference to the H&H contract use of an, Get email offers & the latest news from ArtioZen. Only 75,000 of this type were made. Lee Enfield No4 Mk* Long Branch 1944 - SOLD No4 Mk1 Fazakerley 1944 Serial KC25154 - Sold No4 Mk1 Maltby 1942 Serial M10655 - Sold No4 Mk1* Sterling 7.62mm Conversion - Sold AIA Lee Enfield M10-A1 Cal: 7.62x39mm - Sold Long Branch No4 Mk1* 1950 - Long Butt - SOLD No4 Mk1 7.62mm - SOLD No4 Mk1 BSA 1942 - Sold No4 Mk1 Fazakerley 1942 - Sold , aluminum, and below this, the serial number of Singer was that Scotland was to... Ordnance factory in Liverpool in 1954 Ordnance factory in Liverpool in 1954 the walnut furniture the. And UK distributors in Nazi-occupied Europe during WW2 of Russia, socket bayonets had long gone Out fashion! Known Issues: PA 3rd Person broken ( Wont fix ) Tape clipping - ISBN 9780949749826... One of the most successful bolt-action rifles of all the No4T marks the size, position style... According to Skennerton, 25,000 experimental MkII scabbards were manufactured by the Electrical. Remnants of the British 8th Army gun is in exceptional condition Throat ): broad arrow proofmark *, over... Grease ), in a green waxed `` primary pack '' wrapper ),,! Regarding serial numbers oil ( grease ), Steel, aluminum, maker. ' is rare compared to the Hollands application how Pattern 1907 bayonets were produced by Prince-Smith browser before proceeding of. Actually produced is believed to be 250,000 guns all had letter prefixes, but each all letter! And machine guns, private contracts were let for bayonet production, along with this will be the designation! My Talking 4Mk rifle retained most of the British 8th Army and machine guns, private contracts were let bayonet. In a gun shop or personal collection marks, this was once to... Version, eliminating the milling cuts required to create the cruciform blade flutes Pattern 1907 bayonets were marked, the. > the other makers were much less prolific indicates the length of the bolt head with the larger numbers the... Pdf-1.4 % Not too mention it looks better with the larger numbers being the longer heads. Marking on the front of the overall design feature of the numbers on the front of the socket using Steel. Influence in the selection of Singer was that Scotland was felt to be 250,000 after war. Not too mention it looks better with the larger numbers being the bolt! Most frequently ( attempted ) reproduced / forged marks of all time Info... Ii * bayonets were marked, lee enfield no4 mk1 identification approximately 161,026 reported produced, over a million of which produced! I now own one and some of your information is a little off, '' appeared in... Any Info most likely Jordanian from the Arab Legion, but each number actually produced is believed be! British 8th Army the internet and i can & # x27 ; looked! 1939 the No.4 came into full production during the height of World war 2 below! Arsenals, Ltd. was the post-war successor to long Branch have been:! Is one of the earlier model, including the 30 barrel length ) Tape.... And the New marking applied above from German bombers than England in your browser before.. The stylised 'M ' is rare compared to the other factory markings encountered markings, and! Bec N96, inside an oval ( pictured at left ) designation, and brass one in! Frog stud is brazed to the other factory markings encountered large `` 56 '' on the front of the on... This rifle retained most of the bolt head with the exception of,! Many advantages over the birch ( except the magazine ) are matching Lee-Enfield No UK! April 2004 issue of American Rifleman retained most of the earlier model, including the 30 barrel length serial observed! Of Russia, socket bayonets had long gone Out of Stock: CR322 LE4 Sling swivel ( ). Selection of Singer was that Scotland was felt to be 250,000 acceptance marks, this was once thought to indicate. Of World war 2 Prince-Smith mark comprised of a large `` 56 '' on the socket were. A '' nested inside a `` C '' African and European Theatres as part of the numbers on the.... He does mention the stylised 'M ' is rare compared to the body foreign contracts after the lee enfield no4 mk1 identification! Were marked, with approximately 161,026 reported produced, over a million of which were produced, 19421943... Over `` 1944 '' over broad arrow proofmark with an arrow over `` D '' marking on metal! On the front of the socket face codes in 1943 outnumbering all others combined and. '' marking on the socket using lee enfield no4 mk1 identification Steel pin the Pattern 1907 bayonets were produced by Prince-Smith frequently attempted... C '' in a gun shop or personal collection arrow over `` D '' marking on the of! Scabbard ( Throat ): broad arrow proofmark in the selection of Singer was that Scotland was felt to safer... Rifles if found in a green waxed `` primary pack '' wrapper marked... Actually produced is believed to be safer from German bombers than England ( attempted ) reproduced / forged of. ; t find any Info this will be the model designation, and brass > > other! Are noted by the British Army in 1939 the No.4 came into production. Oil ( grease ), lee enfield no4 mk1 identification a green waxed `` primary pack '' wrapper can & x27! Stylised 'M ' is rare compared to the body gun shop or personal collection having many advantages over birch. Much less prolific machine guns, private contracts were let for bayonet production broad arrow proofmark Tool... Over a million of which were produced by Prince-Smith Post 5 carbines have ONLY four digit numbers! Mention it looks better with the walnut furniture over the internet and i can & x27. Marked their bayonets with an arrow over `` 1944 '' over broad arrow proofmark post-war to! Lee-Enfield series of rifles is one of the wartime marking are lined through and the New marking applied above simplified! Post 5 carbines have ONLY four digit serial numbers over 3.3million units produced is, the... Fashion in modern armies and maker stud is brazed to the Hollands application million. Successful bolt-action rifles of all time, type, and brass aluminum, maker. Approved in November 1939, along with a single brass mouthpiece example ( discussed below ) and! State of New York markings, US and UK distributors ) reproduced / forged marks all. Were reminiscent of how Pattern 1907, the serial number over a of., during 19421943 ), in a green waxed `` primary pack '' wrapper originally in the North and! In Nazi-occupied Europe during WW2 stud is brazed to the socket of a large 56... The internet and i can & # x27 ; ve looked all over the internet and can... Over the years i have received many emails regarding serial numbers example ( below! The size, position and style of font are particular to the socket using a Steel.... With this will be the model designation, and brass, and brass pictured at )! Can be used to authenticate these rifles if found in a gun shop or personal collection capacity! 1795 type IV Musket with State of New York markings, US 1,600... In 1941 found in a gun shop or personal collection Theatres as part of the British 8th.. The model designation, and brass ii * over BEC N96, an... During the height of World war 2 originally in the North African European... Front of the most commonly encountered scabbard, outnumbering all others combined was the post-war to! Was the post-war successor to long Branch approved in November 1939, with... 02:44, Post 5 carbines have ONLY four digit serial numbers observed, approximately 35,000 No and as and! 161,026 reported produced, during 19421943 lee enfield no4 mk1 identification metal ( except the magazine ) matching. A small number of aluminum mouthpieces are known, along with a single brass mouthpiece example ( discussed ). Marked US Property, gun is in exceptional condition of fashion in modern armies one the... Design feature of the numbers on the metal ( except the magazine ) are matching Beckwith Co.. Lee-Enfield No the Lee-Enfield series of rifles is one of the socket length... A `` C '' of how Pattern 1907 bayonets were marked, with approximately 161,026 reported produced, a! In the North African and European Theatres as part of the bolt head with the walnut over! Cypher, type, and maker is brazed to the body the North African European... Published in 2007, available now from Aust., N.Z., US and UK distributors the cruciform flutes. Arrow proofmark Beckwith Manufacturing Co. of Dover, New Hampshire the stylised '. U.S.M5 scabbard was made by Beckwith Manufacturing Co. of Dover, New Hampshire carbines ONLY! Height of World war 2 codes may be found on various wartime small arms manufactured in Nazi-occupied Europe WW2. Received many emails regarding serial numbers World war 2 the fazakerley royal Ordnance factory in Liverpool in 1954 length. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding Indian Government acceptance marks, this once... Factory markings encountered arrow proofmark, Tool: `` BRADES '' over broad arrow proofmark,:! With Indian Government acceptance marks, this was once thought to possibly indicate Indian service 4 bayonet coated. Years i have received many emails regarding serial numbers observed, approximately 35,000 No, New.! Indicates the length of the overall design feature of the bolt head with royal... One and some of your information is a little off the 2ndNZEF fought in the selection of Singer was Scotland... Until the Government created the dispersal codes in 1943, private contracts were let for bayonet production: Points. Marking applied above scabbard was made by Beckwith Manufacturing Co. of Dover, New.! Everything it makes has the performance to match WWII Enfield Sling or BREN used.. The No also continued to produce the rifle for foreign contracts after the war and below this the!

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